Does my emotional health matter to Jesus? - Part 2 // Jes Green

In this episode, we dive deeper into the concept of emotional health through Jes Green's story and how it impacted her growth with Jesus.

Thank you to Real Face for the music you hear in the background. Visit www.realfacemusic.com to learn more about Andrew's work and how you can support it! 

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Shantel Hinnen:   0:05
Welcome to Becoming Like Jesus, a podcast from Pure Heart Church where we explore what it means to become like Jesus through the messy and imperfect stories of real-life in real people. I'm your host, Shantel Hinnen and I'm so excited to be here with you this week. First, I just want to give a shout out to Real Face music. The music that you're hearing in the background is from him; we're so grateful. Be sure to check out his latest album, Sacred Order, wherever you listen to music. And then also, I just want to encourage you. I don't know where you're listening to this podcast on the different platforms, but go ahead and please subscribe and rate and review the podcast that helps this show. Today, I am so excited we are continuing part twp you of discussing this idea of emotional health and growing in this area and how that relates to becoming like Jesus. We're talking this week with Jes Green a little bit about her story. I know that you're going to enjoy it. Let's get started.  

Shantel Hinnen:   1:05
Hey, Jes. Thanks for being on the show.  

Jes Green:   1:08
Yeah, thanks for having me.  

Shantel Hinnen:   1:09
So I want to go ahead and get us started by having you just kind of introduce yourself a little bit. Tell us what you do. And then like also how you're involved here at Pure Heart.

Jes Green:   1:17
Great. My name is Jes. I spend most of my time coordinating events, that's my day job. Um, at Pure Heart I lead 9th-grade girls with in youth ministry, which is super fun. Heart youth. Love them. Um, I also lead a life group for young adult women, which is super fun. 

Shantel Hinnen:   1:48
Yeah. How long have you been at Pure Heart?

Jes Green:   1:49
Oh, um, almost 10 years.

Shantel Hinnen:   1:53
Yeah.  It's been a while. Yeah, I've met you because I joined your small group back in 2015. Can you believe it's been that long?  

Jes Green:   2:01
No, That's crazy. That's wild to think about.

Shantel Hinnen:   2:03
Coming on five years that I've been plugged in there. So, so good. Thank you for being here. So we are talking today about emotional health. We talked to last week with Brenda, our director of counseling, a little bit of our emotional health, and it was very much from a little bit more of an expert kind of clinical perspective. So today I wanted to talk to you a little bit more about your journey in this kind of area. So we're just gonna dive in. And so Brenda defined for us emotional health just to recap for everybody last week as the ability to manage thoughts, feelings and behaviors in a healthy way of super broad definition. And then she kind of dove into that a little bit. But I guess just to start off Jes when you think about your journey moving towards emotional health kind of when did that begin. And what did life kind of look like before that?

Jes Green:   2:55
That's a good question. Uh, I would say that I've always been a very deep feeler. Um, emotions have always been like a big part of just my experience. Um, whether that's good or bad emotions, whatever, all over the place. Um and I don't know that I could really pinpoint a time when I was like, I'm going to start moving towards emotional health. I think for a long time emotional health was kind of synonymous in my brain with spiritual health. And I think, um, as I wanted to grow closer to Jesus, emotional health kind of became a by product of that. Um, also I would say there's not like a "before emotional health I looked like this. And now I look like this" because that's not in at all. Yeah. Does that answer your question?

Shantel Hinnen:   3:59
Kind of, so what did life But before you started kind of that journey. So maybe for you, it didn't feel like "I'm starting this journey to emotional health." which I feel like probably for most of us, that's not like a decision that we one day wake up and make. But usually there's, um, we start to transition towards emotional health because of some sort of pain. That's what Brenda talks about last week like something in life that life is, the feeling of life, what's going on in my life, the kind of circumstances maybe that I'm in or how I'm processing through life for coping with life isn't working for me anymore. And then I'm going to start doing something different. So kind of, would you be willing to share a little bit about maybe, maybe what was kind of life looking like what was kind of pain looking like that caused you to start to make those changes, even if at the time you were thinking more along the lines of I'm moving closer to Jesus and a spiritual journey, which also was emotional.  Does that makes sense?

Jes Green:   4:52
Yeah, I would say, like I said, big feeler, deep feelings. Um, and I don't, I don't know if there's, like, a specific like this was painful, but I think I just was experiencing a lot of pain, and part of that could be just kind of growing up, you know?  

Shantel Hinnen:   5:17
Right.  

Jes Green:   5:17
Um, but then I think what I was choosing to do with that and ways I was choosing to cope, um, we're not good for me. Um, I would get stuck in a shame cycle a lot. I think of like, I should be better. I should be better, you know? And growing up in the church, that was kind of, I felt like there was this expectation that I needed to have it all together. So then when my experience was that I didn't have it all together, that I was experiencing pain, that I didn't kind of look like what I thought I was supposed to look like as a Christian, um, that created even more dissonance and then would start that cycle again, you know? So I think there is a lot of like this is uncomfortable, um, and kind of trying to navigate, like, what does it look like to get out of this? And do I really just need to pray more or like, do I have little faith and, like, what does that look like? You know? Um, because I think that was the narrative that I was telling myself was like, "You just don't have enough faith, or you just need to read your bible more" or whatever. Um, and knowing now, like, looking back now, that wasn't really the case.

Shantel Hinnen:   6:33
Yeah, which I'm sure, like in those moments when we feel that way, like I just maybe actually to pray more or faces, you know, like, I just don't have enough faith or that sort of thing. What was your relationship like, like with God at that time? What was your picture of God like? 

Jes Green:   6:52
Mmm. I think that I had a very small view of God. I think I think I loved him and had a relationship with him. But my view of how that actually changed my life, um, was very limited. Um And I would say it wasn't even until, like, moving away from home and like having to figure out life and, um, experiencing a lot of new things that it was like, Oh, wow. Like, this is what, um, healing looks like in this is who God is, and this is what becoming like Jesus is, you know, um and a lot of that is going up, right? And, um and getting out of the context I was in, not that it was a bad context, that's not what I'm saying at all. Um, but sometimes our perspective needs to shift, and we need to see things from a different vantage point before growth can happen.

Shantel Hinnen:   8:04
Absolutely. Absolutely. I heard you say something along the lines almost like your worldview that you had kind of developed right, that you had to start to kind of break some of that down. And maybe it wasn't what was necessarily even communicated to you and your home church or whatever, but the God that you had kind of, how you had related to God and how you had related to actually reality of what life is a Christian looked like didn't seem to match. Like what you thought it was supposed to look like snd then what your actual experience was not matching and then you had to start to kind of I'm assuming kind of pull that apart. What did that process look like?

Jes Green:   8:41
Mm. Um, honestly, it looked like a lot of crying. Um, I remember my freshman year GCU,  lopes up, Um, God just really deconstructing my whole heart, um, and showing me more of himself through different people in different experiences, being in a new context. And so we would have, like, two different chapel services one in the evening on Tuesdays and then chapel, like normal chapel, on Wednesdays during the day. And I remember for like, the first 3 months of school at each of those services every week, it was like whatever the speaker was talking about was like, "he's talking to me. She's talking to me like that was for me," you know, um and not really having felt that way before. And I was just crying a lot and kind of falling apart but in a good way and journaling a lot about like "God, what does this mean?" And, um, learning a lot. And like, really, like pressing into that, I guess instead of being like this is uncomfortable and this is new. And, um, I think also the friends that I was making and having conversations about, like our lives but also, like, what is what does our relationship with God look like? And that wasn't something that I really had back home. I didn't have a very strong, like, Christian friend community of people that were like my peers. Um and so I think that also, like being in community was like growth spurt because of being with like minded people that were all working towards, like, how do we do this together and do this well, if that makes sense.

Shantel Hinnen:   10:36
Yeah, absolutely. So I heard you say journaling was really important for you to process and then being a part of a community. Were there any other like things that you think when you think about that time of like, starting to kind of evaluate and grow with Jesus and then growing in this area of emotional health? Any other factors that were really important to you?

Jes Green:   10:53
Ah, I think the probably the biggest thing and the starting point would be, um, owning my story. Um, I think I left for college with this idea that, like, I could be anybody wanted to be, um, coming from a small town and, like, feeling like everybody always knows everything about you. Because of that, I felt like I'm going to the big city. I'm going to college, and I can be whoever I want to be. And there's no, um, like, preconceived ideas about who I am, you know? And, um, almost like I felt like I didn't have to bring my baggage with me, which I learned very quickly was not the case. Um, and part of that was learning that in community and having people who really loved and cared about me and were invested in my life and wanted to know my story. Um, and learning to, um, be more comfortable with that, even the parts that seemed to carry more shame, um, and parts that I was like, I don't really know about this or where this is going or what God is doing here or whatever. That sounds kind of vague, sorry. But, um, I think learning telling my story and I would say that's still a process that I'm in, you know? I think that, um the journey to becoming more self aware is the journey to owning your story and owning where you've come from and honoring that and also like knowing where you're headed or where you want to be headed at least.

Shantel Hinnen:   12:34
Yeah, absolutely. And it's it is a process, right? Like we're becoming like Jesus, which is an active thing. It's constantly happening, It's not something we arrive at, and I would say, like the same is true for emotional health, right? They're intertwined. And you would say that your experience has been that as well? 

Jes Green:   12:52
Yes, very much so. Um I had, a mentor back home who said something that was like a catalyst for me, um, in a time where I felt like I feel like I'm making progress, and then I am not, and I'm two steps forward and one step back or whatever. And how do I do this whole faith thing? And, um, he told me "there is no linear and a God that's constant." And I was always really stuck with me, um, because my way of thinking is very linear. It's very like, even the word journey - we think of that as a linear thing, right, that I'm moving forward. Um, but if God is outside of time he doesn't have to think linearly, um, because he's constant. And so what I may feel is a huge setback, um, what I might feel is like, "I had a bad day and I didn't choose emotional health today, and I knowingly chose whatever," you know? That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm done, that I'm down for the count. Like God doesn't see that as a back and forth as much as we do.

Shantel Hinnen:   14:11
Right. I mean, it's like physical health. I didn't work out this week or whatever and so now I've ruined it forever. Well, it's like "no, like I took a step back and I can take a step forward, right? And I can do it  differently tomorrow." And so we have, like, this opportunity to continually grow in this area of emotional health as we do the journey with Jesus. Yeah. So how would you say, like you're still on the journey right now? What are the ways that you see that happening?

Jes Green:   14:40
Mmm. Mmm. Good question. Um, I think like we said, it's a process. So there's probably already, this week, a 1,000,000 times that I've chose unhealth, you know? Um, there are, like, old emotional patterns that I probably will continue to go back to you because that's what's easy. Um, just like if there's Oreos in my house, I will probably eat them, all of them even if I am trying to be healthy or whatever. Um, but I think, I think being in community is still something that is so important to me. Um, and having people close to me that know my stuff that know where I'm at, that know, um that I know that I can come to them and say like, "Hey, I messed up" or "Hey, I'm not feeling okay" or "Hey, I don't know why I'm angry, but I am. And like, will you just sit with me in this" and kind of navigate that and have a conversation? I think for a long time I felt like emotions were my enemy Like that if I could just learn to control them if I could, um, not be sad if I could not fall into depression or anxiety or whatever, then that would be health. But I think, actually, what health looks like is acknowledging the emotions that I'm experiencing and then asking why.  Um and instead of ignoring them and running to different coping mechanisms actually giving space to myself to say, "Okay, I'm feeling really sad right now," and maybe I don't know why, but that's okay that I feel sad and well, what are we gonna do with that? Instead of being like, "I'm gonna do whatever I can to forget about this," actually acknowledging where I'm at and inviting Jesus into that with me because ultimately, I think that's where he wants to be, is right in the middle with us. And I think for a long time I felt like I had to have it all together before I could come to him, which I think is a common experience among a lot of people. But it's specifically in the range of emotions, I felt like if my anger is out of control, then I can't pray today because I mean, my mom just got in a huge fight or whatever, um, or I'm feeling really sad and I want to isolate. Well, the opposite of that would be asking Jesus to come and meet me in that.

Shantel Hinnen:   17:33
Yeah, and I think it's easy to, when we haven't, so like you said, it's a process, and I've experienced this too so then I don't invite Jesus and like I felt really angry and I don't invite Jesus in. And I feel like then I have this self talk that, like in those moments, somehow I'm like, moving further away because I didn't invite Jesus in so then next time it's even harder to ask Jesus to come in, but we actually have access every single time, like he's right there. We just get to acknowledge that he's with us in it, and it's in that acknowledging that he actually wants to, like, grow us right, so good. Now, when you were kind of starting in the journey and you said like Jesus helped you to deconstruct your heart is kind of what you said. What do you think were the things that you needed to hear in that season from someone? What would have been helpful for you?

Jes Green:   18:26
Like from someone like a friend? Or like, what is live need from Jesus? 

Shantel Hinnen:   18:32
What would be something encouraging from a friend, maybe? Or even like, what did you experience that you heard from God in that season? Or maybe you did hear it from a friend? I'm not sure, but what were the things that you needed to hear that you didn't necessarily even know that you needed to hear.

Jes Green:   21:03
mm. Ithink from God, the biggest thing that I was learning and that he was showing me was, um what unconditional love really was. And that kind of showed up in a lot of different ways, but I think love before that was very conditional. Um, and even though I grew up like hearing about God's unconditional love, I don't think I really knew what that meant. And I felt like I was always striving to be good enough for God's love. And so that experience from him was him showing me, like, "Jes, I love you and you don't have to do anything to earn that like, I love you because of you." And so that was like, huge. Then I also had friends that were reinforcing that and that we're showing me that they loved me and experiencing, like, good, healthy community with these people that I didn't know very well but that they invited me in and that they wanted to know me. That it wasn't just like, "Oh, yeah, we can hang out whenever but we don't have to, like, actually get to know each other, you know?" It was good, deep community, and it was authentic. And I think that I really needed people to love me for me, you know? And I think that's a human need. I think that's something that we all are looking for. Sometimes we're just not looking for in the right places. And then I think I also needed permission to love myself. And that's something that I  still may struggle with, you know? It's a process. I don't always love myself. Um, but I would say I'm learning still how to do that well.

Shantel Hinnen:   21:03
Yeah, that do you think that process looks like, the learning to love yourself?

Jes Green:   21:06
hy would I continue to hold stuff over myself that he's already forgotten about? Um, I think when I don't forgive myself is when I get stuck in a shame cycle. Um and then I think just giving my stuff myself space like I said to know myself, to figure out those things and sometimes I could be really silly things, but a lot of times it's trying to be intentional about being introspective. And, um, not just like brushing away like "that really hurt me. Why? Why did it hurt me? What? What is it that hurt?" Instead of just being like shoving it away or trying to forget about it? That kind of thing. I think that that is a form of self love that we may not always acknowledge.

Shantel Hinnen:   22:31
I think that's good. And I think like that non-judgment is what I keep hearing like being able, to be honest about your emotions and feelings and then do that and non-judgment toward yourself, which is really hard to do. And we judge for a reason, right, like we're trying to make sense of it, but sometimes we just have to, like start by open, being open-handed and not beating ourselves up for the way that we feel in just being honest about them so we can navigate why?

Jes Green:   23:00
Yeah, and I think having self compassion, too, which may sound a little silly, but, um, I think Jesus is compassionate on us, so why would we not be compassionate on ourselves also, right? Like I think, growing up, it was always like, you should have compassion like Jesus has it has for other people and, like love your neighbor and care about other people and this is what selflessness looks like. But if we have the compassion of Jesus for other people, why would we neglect ourselves in that also right?

Shantel Hinnen:   23:33
And it's loving Jesus. I mean, loving others, as yourself is with the Scripture, says. And so we have to first figure out what that means r how are we gonna love someone else? Yeah. You mentioned, you said the term shame cycle and we've said that a few times, would you kind of share a little bit about what that, what is a shame cycle feel like? If somebody's tried, identify that and then what are the ways that you get out of that?

Jes Green:   23:59
Hmm. For me, shame always feels like I'm not good enough, that I've missed whatever mark and that I will never be good. And so that cycle looks like messing up, making a bad decision, whatever it may be. And then the self talk that comes after that is myself telling myself that I'm not good enough that I messed up, that I'm never gonna get out of this. Whatever. That's basically it

Shantel Hinnen:   24:47
And that fuels you staying in that same spot, doesn't it?

Jes Green:   24:49
Yes because then you feel like you can't get out do why would I choose something better. If I'm feeling depressed. If I'm experiencing depression and I feel like I'm not good enough to be happy or I don't deserve to be happy or content or whatever the opposite of depression would be right. Then I'm going to make choices to stay in unhealth. Do not hear me say that if you're depressed, you're choosing to stay that way. That's not what I'm saying. This is specific to the shame cycle right. And so then we stay in these patterns and feel like we can't get out.

Shantel Hinnen:   25:40
So how do we how do we get out? What are the things that help you in that process? Because you're talking about lies that you're hearing, right? Yourself talk is a lie. Those things are not true, but you're declaring over them over yourself, over and over again. So, yeah, in your experience, what is helpful for getting out of that?

Jes Green:   25:58
Yes, uh, the biggest thing I told us to my freshman girls all the time. Um, the biggest thing is to fight lies with truth. And this is not mark the check box and read your Bible more. This is can you combat the lies you're telling yourself with the truth that Jesus has already spoken? And one way to do that is to know the word and to speak it over your life and to be reading it right, to consume it. Um, but Paul talks about taking every thought captive and making it obedient to Christ.  And for a long time, I think my emotions held me captive and I would get stuck, but that one scripture reading that one verse changed my whole thought process. Because if I can actually acknowledge the thoughts that I'm thinking and then take captive like hold on to them and then make them obedient to Christ. What does that look like? That looks like saying "no, no, they see is a lie and I'm gonna recognize that it's a lie." And making it obedient to Christ would be, "What is the truth that replaces this?"

Shantel Hinnen:   27:20
Yeah, yeah, And when you can't do that by yourself, that's where the community comes in, right?

Jes Green:   27:24
Yes, 100%. When you have people that you can be honest with and say, "Hey, this is where I am right now and honestly, I don't think I can get out of this." You need to have people that will say "I see you and I know that that's how it feels and that's OK that it feels that way. But let's talk about truth. Let's talk about what Jesus has already spoken."

Shantel Hinnen:   27:50
Yeah, and friends, who can like measure that. I mean, I've had moments with you that I think of that like I've just been sharing with you where I'm at and you very clearly speak truth over me and say "Shantel, you're believing a lie right now, so that's OK that you feel that way but actually, here's what's true about you. This is what Jesus has already done. This is the victory that we already have in Jesus." Um, and reminding me of that even when I don't even recognize that that's what I need to hear, right? Um, and so people who can speak those words into your life, um, whether you know you need it or not. Obviously being able to communicate that is good and being able to ask for it but sometimes in those moments of, like, isolation, when we're feeling shame, the first thing we go to everything is to isolate it's easy to cut off from others. And so we have to fight that by telling the truth and reaching out for help. Um, but also, if we're already in community and makes it a lot harder to hide.

Jes Green:   28:47
Yeah, that is very true. 

Shantel Hinnen:   28:52
Yeah so when I meet with you, like we have small group, what a few times a month when I know I'm going to see you, you're built into my schedule to see on a regular basis. And it becomes, because we've cultivated a relationship that I honor, like I want to be honest with you and it, It's harder for me to not be honest with you. You know what I mean, because we have a relationship because I've built in community into my life. Yeah, and so I think that's really important as well. What would you want to say to somebody who's listening, who's maybe in a lot of pain right now or, um, yeah, just feeling a lot and doesn't know how to how to process through that. How would you want to encourage them? Or what would you say are some maybe some next steps potentially for them?

Jes Green:   29:38
I would say something that I'll steal from a Haste The Day song, uh, that was really, really critical for me. There's a look that says "you're worth more than this." And God used that in a really dark time in my life, um, for him to say that to me, and I think sometimes we need to say it to each other. Yeah. Um, yeah. So if you're in a lot of pain and you don't know life looks like right now and how to get out of that. I would say "you're worth more than this." Jesus said that he came to bring life and life abundant and that's not prosperity, cause he also said you'll experience trouble.  But I think we can have both of you that we can have trouble and we can have life abundant. So if you're not experiencing life abundant know that you're worth more than this that Jesus already paid the cost for you to have life abundant. He brought that.

Shantel Hinnen:   30:48
Yeah. Good. I love that. Um, so you're in this journey we're talking about you being you're growing in this. You said it was a journey. What do you think? You're some of the ways right now in your life that you feel like, um, you know that are next steps for you as you grow in this area of emotional health.

Jes Green:   0:00
That's an uncomfortable question.  

Jes Green:   0:00
You just made a face at me for all those who can't see.

Jes Green:   31:16
Uh oh, goodness. Um, yeah, I would say and I've known this for a while, but it doesn't make it any easier. So shout out to all those who are feeling the same way as me. Um, my next step is seeking counseling. Honestly. Um, I think I I have experienced a ton of healing and a ton of growth and Jesus is so good. But I think that there are still a lot of things that I don't quite know how to fully heal myself. And there's a level of being community and having those people and being honest and processing through things. But I think there's another level of sitting with a professional, and I know that's something that we are all about here, at Pure Heart so I'm excited about that. But, um, I think for me for a while there was stigma around that right? And and I I think maybe more my personality to is like, I can do this on my own and I want to figure this out and white knuckle it and I don't think that that's what use is calling me to. And so I don't I don't really have a timeline. I feel like I've been saying for a while that I probably should see a counselor, um, but it's a scary process, and I don't always know, like, where do I start with that and what if I don't have a good experience in the in the first appointment, you know? Or what I like.. It just all feels very unknown. And I think that's really scary. Um, so here I am being really honest now, a lot of people are gonna hold me accountable so.

Shantel Hinnen:   33:17
Yeah, I know. I asked you that question kind of knowing the answer because I'm either a good or bad friend I'm not sure. But I wanted people to hear that like you've been through this journey, you've grown in emotional health. You've done so much work without counseling and you have grown. And I would like I mean again we've said that it's not like a thing that you arrived to, but in a lot of ways, you are an emotionally healthy person and a lot of ways, not every single day but right, like not every single moment but you make a lot of choices and and you know how to, for the most part, manage a lot of your thoughts, feelings and behaviors. But there's still more work to do, and that's OK. It's like healing has happened here and right now, also, there's more to be done. And so it's okay to be in the process. And it's you could be on a podcast talking about emotional health, even when you haven't done all the work yet, you know, and that's that's okay.

Jes Green:   34:08
yeah, and I would say honor the word that you've done already, you know?

Shantel Hinnen:   34:12
Yeah. One other question that I want to ask you, and I've kind of feel like I've been a little out of order, but we're just rolling with it. Um, you mentioned a Haste The Day song, and I know that, like music and creativity is so much of an important part of your own journey. Will you share a little bit about kind of how creativity and that is important for you, as you kind of continue to grow more like Jesus and more in the area of emotional health?

Jes Green:   34:37
Sure, I think that creativity, art, music, just kind of all over the place has been just like a really big part of my life in general. I mentioned journaling earlier, but, uh, for a lot of years, journaling was kind of synonymous with poetry. Um, I started writing poetry at a very young age like eight or nine years old. But I come from a family that writing is a big deal and, um, grew up reading my mom and my grandma's poetry and just loved that. So that's still a really big part of, like, processing through words for me. And that's something that can be just for me and Jesus. And I don't have to share it with people or I can, um so that's a big thing. Um, I love music a lot, mostly listening to music and finding music, not necessarily playing music. And then something more recently that's been really big for me is, um, actually like carving out time to allow myself to be creative. I've gotten really into art journaling and Bible journaling, and, um, using that I was like a way to process and letting go of perfection. I think has been a big part of that. Um, instead of just looking at like a canvas and I want to paint this and then if it doesn't look like I wanted to in my head than it's a failure and I'm gonna throw it away. I think for a long time art was like that for me and now I'm learning to give myself permission to fail. And, um, know that that's not the end of the story and I can turn the page, and I could try again. I could slap more paint on it next week, and I don't look completely different. And sometimes I feel like that's the journey of emotional health also is letting go of perfection and knowing that I can try again tomorrow. Yeah. You know? If I didn't like how today went, If I'm angry at the end of the day or I'm crying, I ate the whole thing of Oreos. Yeah, there is tomorrow. We don't just say stuck in failure.

Shantel Hinnen:   36:58
Yeah, so good.  

Jes Green:   37:00
Something else? 

Shantel Hinnen:   37:01
Yeah, I was just about to say, Is there anything else?

Jes Green:   37:04
I would say, Um, I just thought of this when we're talking about music, though, is also, um silence.  

Shantel Hinnen:   37:14
Unpack that a little bit.  

Jes Green:   37:15
Yeah, I think I have kind of had to learn more silence as a discipline because I love music so much. So a few years ago, I would say I was in a really just, like, weird place. I've gone through like a really bad break up and I felt like all of my friends were, like, choosing sides. And so I felt, like, kind of isolated unintentionally and was like, all over the place, um, and I met with my friend who told me that God his constant, um, same friend. We had dinner, they were in town and, um, I was kind of talking about what life looked like and how all over the place I was and I felt like I was a mess and I quoted a song lyric to describe how I felt, which was a very like common thing for me to do, um, I feel like that's a common thing for a lot of people do, right? Like we love music because of what It shows us about ourselves.

Shantel Hinnen:   38:18
It puts language to we are feeling, right? 

Jes Green:   38:22
Yeah, exactly. And so this mentor friend of mine told me that I was probably relying on music too much to I know how I felt instead of finding out myself. And because I like a good challenge, he challenged me to fast for music. Yeah, it was very interesting. It was very hard um, because music was just a part of my everyday. So I took the little face plate off of the stereo in my car. Um, my closest couple of friends were super all in, and so we would have homework parties and they would not listen music also, which was really hard. It was kind of a fun community thing, though then at that point. But, um, and in that time, I think I really learned to value silence and realized how much I really was leaning on music. But more than that, I was leaning on noise because if there was someone else singing about their emotions, then I could say that that was mine, too. And I'm not saying that's bad thing. That's a very good thing and sometimes that's super needed. I still have a lot of favorite songs, right? And I was quoting lyrics earlier. Yeah, but the clarity that I sought in that time and really ask God like, "am I leaning on this too much? Do I actually know how I feel? Um what, like what am I doing, right?" Um, yeah, like he brought clarity. And I think that was another kind of moment of growth, of realizing like I can know, I can know how I feel. I don't have to wait for someone else. I don't have to wait for the perfect song lyric to describe it. I can know, I just have to allow myself space to think about that and turn off the noise. It's really easy when you're feeling pain or discomfort of any kind, right, to turn on a podcast, to turn on music, to call up a friend and talk about something else, right? It's really easy to do that, to look at Instagram can we go there, right? So much of our lives are filled with noise and all these are good things. But when we're using them as noise to drown out what we're actually feeling, then we've missed it. So learning, um, what silence looks like and how to sit in silence and how to sit in silence with God and try and listen to his voice. And I'm not perfect at that, right. I definitely I'm not perfect, but it's something that has really been a tool. If I can call a tool. Yeah, it's been a tool.

Shantel Hinnen:   41:32
Cool. Yeah, I think that in order to in order to identify our emotions right and to get that to spend that time doing that we have to, like you said, eliminated the noise and the reason why we're creating the noise is because in order to identify it, we have to feel it. And so we're running from the the feeling, right? Like we're running from really experience the fullness of that emotion. It's easier to create noise. It's easier to not look at it. But that's how we grow in self awareness. That's how we grow more like Jesus. That's how we, um, growing emotional health. 

Jes Green:   42:05
So Shantel what would you say to someone who says I don't know how to know what I'm feeling.

Shantel Hinnen:   42:17
Mmm. Yeah, I would say the first step for me has been silenced to cause my go to is I would say I do all the kind of things you said, but I really, um I'm really good at, like avoiding how I'm feeling by looking at what everybody else around feeling whatever else around me is doing you know. I'm kind of notorious for like calling a friend and saying, "How are you?"  when I don't want to deal with like how I am, you know? And so I would say creating space and getting quiet, um, has been one of the most crucial things for me as well and inviting God in. And writing has been a big tool for that, too. So just kind of initially writing, you know, sometimes it helps, Brenda talked about kind of the four core emotions last last week, and sometimes that helps suggest even sometimes we have really focused you right, like maybe I'm jealous or something. But, um, sometimes just starting with those four core emotions and being able to kind of identify, like, in what area am I feeling. And that's anger, fear, contentment or sadness. So I'm just kind of generally, if I can put it in a bucket there, then I can help kind of narrow down maybe what I'm feeling. Sometimes that takes writing. Sometimes I think, even asking, "what do I feel in my body?" That's a huge thing because our bodies are all connected, right? Um, to how we're feeling and connected to trauma experiences like that. So sometimes when I'm overwhelmed with emotion, just pausing, taking deep breaths and, um, asking the question, you know, "what am I feeling right now" and asking God to guide me in that. And then again, doing in non judgment. Cultivating... cultivating a space where I can go to with God and myself that is not, there's no judgment there and I can be honest about how I'm feeling and, um, and just look at it for what it is. So I don't have to like, I can be honest, like, I'm feeling really jealous right now. "Ooh, I don't like that," right? Like it's okay that I don't like that part of myself but God loves me even though I feel jealous like he is for me in that. And it is his love that actually transforms that. It's his love that transforms those things about my heart that I just can't stand. He's the one who does that when I'm honest about them. So, um similar. Yeah. Thanks. Any other questions that you have for me?  

Jes Green:   44:43
No, I think that's all.

Shantel Hinnen:   44:46
Awesome. Awesome. Is there anything that we didn't talk about that you want to talk about, anywhere we didn't go, that you had planned to go off the top of your head.  

Jes Green:   44:56
I don't think so.  

Shantel Hinnen:   44:57
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for doing this. Um, it's always fun chatting with you, but this was super fun so I appreciate your willingness to kind of be vulnerable.  Wasn't that conversation with  Jes great. I hope that you just learned something new about emotional health and how to kind of process through as you're on this journey yourself. I hope that you heard that it is a journey and it is okay no matter where you're at in the process. This week, I would just encourage you, Jes and I both shared a little bit about the importance of silence and getting quiet. If you're trying to navigate a lot of emotions or pain or you don't know what your next step is, maybe your first step is just getting quiet with a pen in a piece of paper, inviting God in and just kind of starting to put some language to how you're feeling. Creating a space of non judgment and then just inviting God into to just be honest about where you're at and see what God would prompt you as a next step from there. If you have any questions, or if you are interested in maybe getting counseling, at Pure Heart or just kind of need to process with somebody, we would be honored to do that with you. You can send us an email to podcast@pureheart.org. Thanks and have a great week.